From ns.itep.ru!CERN.ch!EU.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.dreamscape.com!news Wed Nov 20 10:42:51 1996 Path: ns.itep.ru!CERN.ch!EU.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.dreamscape.com!news From: "Patrick R. Mullen" Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc,comp.os.os2.multimedia Subject: Re: NEED ADVICE on upgrading to wavetable! Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:47:14 -0500 Organization: Mullen Scientific Software Lines: 330 Message-ID: <3290AF32.DDC@dreamscape.com> References: <56on2f$1p5@news.utdallas.edu> Reply-To: prmullen@dreamscape.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) To: goyal@utdallas.edu CC: tbuck@globalserve.on.ca, michealc@ix.netcom.com Xref: ns.itep.ru comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc:27083 comp.os.os2.multimedia:30752 warped wrote: > > I currently have a SB16 non-PNP with the ASP chip. > I run DOS, OS/2 Warp, and Win95. > I would very much like to get wavetable synthesis support.. [snip] "Warped": Well, there are several ways to go here that I can see: (1) Dump the SB-16 and get a new soundcard -- This opens a tremendous can of worms, as *now* you have to figure out whether to go with a true Creative-made soundcard or not. Fortunately, you specified that the card should be compatible with VoiceType, which leaves only the AWE-32 PnP (ASP/CSP enabled). The AWE-32 PnP is an OK card if you just use the 1 MByte patchset. But, add 8 MBytes of RAM, and the new EMU 8 MByte GM patchset, and this card *rocks*. For DOS games, I haven't figured out how to load the 8 MByte RAM patchset, so I now either run the game in a DOS Box under Win '95 (after loading the EMU patchset), or else use the TopWave-32 wave blaster daghtercard (I setup the game to use the Midi port for music). My wife just upgraded to the AWE-32 PnP from a SB-16 (don't worry Gravis fans -- she kept the GUS ACE), added 8 MBytes of RAM and the new EMU soundfonts (from their GM SoundFont-II CD-ROM) and *loves* the card! As an aside, GUS owners will be happy to learn that you *can* have your cake, and eat it too. The AWE-32 PnP works side-by-side with a GUS ACE, GUS Classic, GUS Max, *and* the new GUS InterWave PnP (but you need to disable the IDE controller on the GUS InterWave card). Gail likes having Creative and Gravis capability under the same hood. The GUS line is *still* the best for MOD and demo folks. (2) Keep the SB-16, but add a wave blaster daughtercard for Midi -- A *lot* of people have taken this route, and are quite satisfied with the results. The best wave blaster daughtercards for the SB-16, which we have tested in the lab, are the TopWave-32, the Roland SCD-15, and the Yamaha DB50XG. (a) The TopWave-32 is the best low-cost GM Midi wave blaster daughtercard on the market. It's made by X-Technology, and employs a Korg synthesizer with a 4 MByte patchset. I *like* this card quite a bit, and have one attached to my AWE-32 on my business machine (in a sealed computer case to keep my engineers from attempting to *scrounge* it off of me -- Hands off guys!). The TopWave-32 has the best GM Midi output of *any* 4 MByte ROM set I have heard, and I use it all the time when playing games. Under Win '95, I switch over to the 8 MByte EMU patchset, but for piano practise I prefer the TopWave-32. A major plus for the TopWave is that it is the *only* wave blaster daughtercard I have ever seen that has a seperate 18-bit DAC output port right on the card, so you can by-pass the SB-16 cheesey analog output for music (but you'll need a seperate amp and speakers, or an external mixer). I'd also like to mention that the manual for the TW-32 has an excellent tutorial on soundcard audio. The web page for X-technology is: http://shadow.icon.fi/xtech/ (b) The Roland SCD-15 is the best GM/GS card ever made, but Roland no longer sells the board directly: you'll have to buy one from Edirol. Their web page is: http://www.edirol.com/ Here's the standard Edirol blurb on the SCD-15: Roland SCD-15 Daughterboard (GS Format/General MIDI) Item# 362-102 Call for Best Price This small but powerful 'daughterboard' installs directly onto a Soundblaster 16 series card to upgrade the MIDI sounds to high-quality Roland Sound Canvas instruments. 354 instrument sounds, 28 voices polyphony, 16 MIDI channels, stereo reverb and chorus effects. Includes popular software - DoReMiX, Easy Juke and Cakewalk Express for making fast, dynamic musical sequences. The SCD-15 *used* to be our reference wave table system, and for GS it's unbeatable (except by another higher-priced piece of Roland equipment). But lately, for GM Midi I much prefer the EMU 8 MByte GM patchset on my AWE, or the TopWave-32 Korg patchset. The price on the SCD-15 varies over a time quite a bit, but if you see a used one going cheap, grab it. (c) The most popular wave blaster add-on currently is the Yamaha DB50XG. Yamaha has created a new Midi format standard with it's introduction of the XG system. For XG-composed music, a DB50XG is the way to go. Many games also now support the XG format, and XG-specific compositions are increasingly becoming more common on various music-oriented web sites. For GM Midi music, I have personaly been greatly disappointed with XG. Too many GM instruments were sacrificed on the XG alter in the limited 4 MByte patchset space on the DB50XG. Frankly, Yamaha almost shouldn't have bothered, and should have made the board XG-only (or better still, added a heck of a *lot* more ROM). But, when I downloaded some XG Midi files and played them, the DB50XG really showed it's true capabilities. Although classical music sucks-rocks when played on the DB50XG, the more modern jazz, rock, and new-age XG music compositions came off quite well. I won't attempt to describe all the *positive* capabilities of the DB50XG in just a few short paragraphs, but I will say that under the right circumstances XG music can be quite extraordinary. Additional information on the PC-XG family, plus pointers to other XG sites, can be found at the following web page: Yamaha Strategic Business Alliance http://www.ysba.com/ (3) Add a second ISA-Bus sound system for Midi support -- I personaly am underwhelmed with the SB-16 audio quality, so I prefer *not* to add a wave blaster daughtercard: there's a much better way to go! There is nothing about the SB-16 that can prevent you from adding a second ISA-Bus soundcard system (unless other peripherals in your system have gobbled up all available IRQ/DMA resources). The best second-card add-ons we have tried with a SB-16 (and AWE) are as follows: (a) Yamaha SW60XG -- The King of the lab for adding Midi music to a non-Midi audio system. The SW60XG was dead-easy to install, and worked in *every* mixed soundcard system we tried it in (we even successfuly created an AWE-32 + GUS InterWave + SW60XG system). The SW60XG is a *humongous* card (as big as the AWE-32 PnP), so make sure you have a free ISA slot that isn't blocked by the CPU. All my comments about the DB50XG apply to the SW60XG, but with several major differences: (i) The SW60XG does not use the audio output of the SB-16. Instead, the output of the SB-16 would be patched into the line-in of the SW60XG (don't use the amplified Speaker Out; use the SB-16 Line-Out instead). The SW60XG analog mixer then adds the 18-bit XG synth DAC output to the SB-16 line-in signal, and send the resulting signal out to the SW60XG's Line-Out port. (ii) The SW60XG has a custom DSP processor that can create some rather neat echo/reverb/chorus effects, and even apply them to the SB-16 audio signal. This can make games like Doom, Duke, and Quake sound quite realistic (or just plane strange). The SW60XG effects can be added to the XG Synth, Line-In, CD-Audio In, and Mic analog signals. The biggest problem with the SW60XG is that, although the 18-bit Midi audio is quite good, the line-in audio can be quite noisey if there is an impedance mis-match between the SW60XG and the other connected soundcard. So far, only the Audiotrix-Pro from Mediatrix has shown this problem. The AWE-32, Tropez Plus, Tahiti, CLMI-140, GUS InterWave PnP, and SB-16 have all worked with the SW60XG just fine. (b) The Turtle Beach Tahiti, when coupled with a wave blaster daughtercard, makes an incredible 18-bit Midi audio system. Our Tahiti + Roland SCD-15 combo can work in any machine in the lab, and the audio output quality is the best of all the soundcards we have. Although we have to use a seperate external amp/mixer system with the Tahiti + SCD-15 + Other Soundcard combo, the expense is well worth it (plus we get *real* "Surround Sound" this way). This is definate over-kill if all you want is to add Midi music to games. But, if you ever see a cheap used Tahiti, grab one! With a TopWave, DB50XG, or SCD-15 the Tahiti becomes more than just an over-priced Hurricane-architecture sampling card. As a final note, the Tahiti will soon be replaced by the Fiji, which will support 20-bit audio, have a wave blaster connector, and the Hurricane Architecture sampling/playback system. See www.tbeach.com for more information. (c) Another possible add-on is the Turtle Beach Pinnacle. This is quite an expensive way to add Midi music, but it doesn't get much better than this. The Kurzweil MA-1 is probably the most powerful synthesizer chip in a PC soundcard on the market today. We haven't had a chance to try-out a Pinnacle yet, but the card is Midi only (with a Hurricane architecture sample/playback system) and should be able to sit side-by-side with just about any soundcard. Although the 2 MByte ROM patchset on the Pinnacle is not the greatest, the ability to add RAM and new Kurzweil-compatible patchsets (which you cannot do with the SW60XG) make this a card to watch (see www.tbeach.com for more info). Frankly I find it kind of scary when the soundcard has more RAM capacity than one of my PC's ! Not for the timid... (4) Get a new soundcard, and add it next to your SB-16 -- This option would give you the ability to *keep* your Text Assist application, have perfect SB and SB-16 compatibility, plus add the features of a whole new soundcard system. The down-side is you'll need another amp and speakers, or else use an external analog mixer to combine the output of both the SB-16 and the new soundcard. The best non-Creative stand-alone soundcards we have in the lab are the CrystaLake Multimedia CLMI-140 and the Turtle Beach Tropez Plus. (a) The CLMI-140 uses a CS9233 synth, a custom Crystal Semiconductor DSP for effects and SRS, a CS4232 codec, and a 4 MByte Dream ROM patchset, and has the best 16-bit audio output of *any* soundcard. The Dream patchset is both GM and GS compatible, and is excellent (I rate it a close second to the TopWave-32). The CLMI-140 MPU-401 interface requires no TSR's for use with DOS Games, so you can easily take advantage of the high-quality Dream instruments while playing your favorite shoot-em-up. The CS4232 codec has a mode where it is register-level compatible with the Sound Blaster, which can be disabled (so as not to conflict with your SB-16). If you were willing to give up Text Assist, you could use the CLMI-140 as a substitute for the SB-16. The other CS4232 modes make the CLMI-140 compatible with the Windows Sound System (essentialy, the CS4232 immitates an older AD1848 codec), and an advanced mode compatible with the CS4231 codec. The CS4232 codec supports true hardware full-duplex operation. The effects DSP on the CLMI-140 is quite effective, and this is one of the few soundcards with SRS that actualy *works*. The Win '95 drivers also work well, and are probably among the best ever done. Additional software and documentation are of high quality. The CrystaLake Multimedia web page is at: www.crystalake.com (b) The Turtle Beach Tropez Plus is an excellent wave table sound card, and improves on many of the features found in an earlier version, the Tropez. The T+ uses an ICS-2115 synth chip, similar to the one used on the Tropez, Maui, and Rio cards. A CS4232 codec has all the same features found on the CLMI-140 discussed previously. A Yamaha OPL3 FM synth chip is provided for compatibility with older games. To provide icing on the cake, a Yamaha YSS225 DSP chip, with 64 KBytes of static RAM, provides global effects. The T+ 4 MByte ROM WaveFront patchset is identical to the wave table ROM on the Rio, an early Turtle Beach wave blaster daughtercard. In addition to 4 MBytes of ROM, the T+ has three all-important 30-pin simm sockets which can hold up to 12 MBytes of RAM. With the addition of RAM, there are literaly hundreds of MBytes of public domain wave table instrument patches that can be downloaded. The Tropez Plus is one of my favorite all-in-one non-Creative soundcards. The audio quality is on a par with the CLMI-140, the ROM patchset is OK for games, and the addition of RAM and additional instrument patches can allow this card to produce excellent music. In addition, the Tropez Plus is hardware MPU-401 compatible, works well with DOS, Win 3.1, and Win '95, and seems to have good support. Now if only Turtle beach would release an 8 to 12 MByte GM patchset like Creative did with the EMU SoundFont CD-ROM... ************************************************** Well, that's all I have time for. For additional information, check out the various web pages. I have avoided discussing the Gravis GUS family, as I'm sure people who are more competent than I am about the GUS will post some replies to you (see the advanced.gravis.com web page). -- Cheers! Patrick R. Mullen Dir. of Engineering Mullen Scientific Software 1686 State Route 69 Parish, NY 13131 (315) 625-4660 prmullen@dreamscape.com ************************************************************* Favorite Quotes: "I know that I am mortal and the creature of a day; but when I search out the massed wheeling circles of the stars, my feet no longer touch the earth, but, side by side with Zeus himself, I take my fill of ambrosia, the food of the gods." -- Claudius Ptolemaeus "If we die, do not mourn for us. This is a risky business we're in, and we accept those risks. The space program is too valuable to this country to be halted for too long if a disaster should ever happen." -- Gus Grissom, three weeks before he was killed in the Apollo 1 fire. "The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will go to the stars." "Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself." -- Richard Feynman "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers." -- James Thurber "Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance." "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." -- Mark Twain "A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither." -- Thomas Jefferson