From ns.itep.ru!Radio-MSU.net!news.dfn.de!news.ruhr-uni-bochum.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!blackbush.xlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!rochester!cornellcs!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!newstand.syr.edu!usenet Sun Apr 21 21:10:32 1996 Path: ns.itep.ru!Radio-MSU.net!news.dfn.de!news.ruhr-uni-bochum.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!blackbush.xlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!rochester!cornellcs!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!newstand.syr.edu!usenet From: "Patrick R. Mullen" Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.advocacy Subject: Re: No great choices Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 14:01:26 -0400 Organization: MSS Lab Group Lines: 142 Message-ID: <31728EF6.71C1@MCIMail.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: sudial3-168.syr.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) To: tbuck@idirect.com Thomas Buck wrote: > > Hi All. > I have an Audiotrix Pro and Gus soundcard combination that for several > reasons I find less than ideal (I also have a Roland LAPC-1 but can't > currently use it - that's part of the problem). So I find myself in > the search for the holy grail of soundcards. So far my overall > impression is that the ideal soundcard doesn't exist. > > I guess I want what most of you are looking for - great sound, > compatibility and *no fuss* (I don't want to have to upload a mess of > patches in order to make up for poor onboard patches). I want to > simply fire up my games and play and not have to worry about what > driver do I load this time. > > The Audiotrix is a great card as far as sound quality goes. No hum, > hiss, crackles etc and the GM support is quite good. If all I ever > played was windows based games it would probably suffice. But I've > found "limitations" in its design (that I've listed elsewhere here - > so I won't bother repreating them unless requested). > > My impressions of what's available so far: > > Crystal Lake 140: > This card looks like everything I've been looking for. Great GM patch > set. Quiet 4 layer card. SRS and effects processing. SB Pro > compatibility and WSS support. > But what gives with CrystaLake ? I have sent them Email (several) > trying to find out if the base I/O settings for the card will allow me > to also use the LAPC-1 and so far these guys haven't returned a single > message ! > Given that the cards are only available via direct sales that doesn't > leave me with a good feeling (remember Kalix?). Add to that the $300 > US price tag (about $450 Cdn) and the picture gets bleaker. I'll > pass. > > The Interwave Cards (Gus PnP, Reveal Sc850, STB ???): > Seems like a good sounding chipset, although all the demos are done > with the prototype AMD card w/4mb ROM but all you can buy is the 1mb > ROM (why is that ?). Gus heritage (lots of Ultrasound support out > there). > Whats wrong ? > I want no fuss - and there are so many different emulations and > drivers to keep track of. Gravis's home site, in its PnP FAQ, states > that the card can be Ultrasound or Interwave - but NOT both at the > same time. And to change from one to the other requires loading > different drivers and rebooting. That means you cannot choose say - > Interwave GM while using an Ultrasound setting for DAC. Also you > have to add memeory to really use the Ultrasound emulation. SB > support is mono (had enough of that with the AT Pro). I've lived with > a GUS and am NOT impressed by the Ultrasound GM patch set - > I'll pass. > > ESS Elite. > Another very good GM patch set. Lots of ESS direct support aound. > SB emulation. Effects processing. > What's wrong ? > Every review has mentioned the card has a hiss problem. I got rid of > my SB16/WB combo a couple of years ago because of the hiss. > SB support requires a driver - and it is mono (been there, done that). > > Maybe as a second card .... > > TB Tropez plus: > SB Pro & WSS emulation, GM patch set, effects processing. > What's wrong ? > Unless its been improved, the patch set is only mediocre, regardless > of effects processing. Have to add RAM and upload patches to fix > that (ugh - fuss !). TB have not got a great reputation currently. > > MediaVision Products: > Does anyone still buy these ? > > AWE32: > The faults of this card are well detailed. While it can be improved > as is detailed elsewhere (can't remember the WWW site off hand) I'm > not interested in a non MPU401 attached synth (with lousy ROM patches) > and I don't care about EMU soundfonts and the memory requirements that > go with it. And very few of us are equipped to use the SP/DIF. > Noisy DAC, FM, mixer, amp.... > But you can add a much better synth (Roland DB15, Yamaha XG50, ESS > etc) > Base I/O for MUP401can be set to 300H (I can use the LAPC-1 again). > Features - Cost + hassles: I'll pass. > > SB32: > Uses the Vibra16 chipset - much quieter than AWE. Still has the EMU > and 1mb ROM. > No WB header ? > I'll pass. > > SB16 PnP + Daughterboard: > Vibra16 chipset. WB header. Tons of support. With the right > daughterboard this can be a winner (?). SCDB15 is a bit pricey for me > - 350$ Cdn (though I love Roland - I do have an LAPC-1 after all). > Maybe the Yamaha XG50 or ESS DB. > Base I/O for MUP401can be set to 300H (I can use the LAPC-1 again) > This might be it - but its a CL product (ugh). > > If anyone has any other ideas I'd welcome them. > > Regards, > Tom > > "There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly > what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear > and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. > There is another which states that this has already happened." > - Douglas Adams - Tom: Now you know WHY the MSS Lab Group uses over a dozen different soundcards (we don't have them around for fun): no single soundcard is "perfect", and they all have strengths that we take advantage of -- and weaknesses we rant over! We were hired by a major commercial audio products company to look at this problem: how does one design and manufacture a soundcard that will be as near-perfect as possible, but cost under $200 ? It turns out that new silicon coming out this year MAY make it possible to build the "perfect" soundcard: the problem is, many chip fabs are unwilling to stick their necks out to try mass-producing some of the more interesting synth/codec chip designs until they see a market. Of course, unless the chips are available super-cheap, we can't use these sound devices in our design, so no-market. Round and round we go!... Cheers! Pat Mullen MSS Lab Group prmullen@MCIMail.com P.S. -- The company in question that hired us to design the "Perfect Soundcard" went through a major re-org last month, and then decided to leave town, dumping our project (and several hundred of their best engineers) along the way...Who ever said life was fair? PRM